Gross Weight Question

[wildbri]

And there is more...... once you reach 70 years of age your towing weight is restricted... bri

[vatco]

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

now that shows crassness of it the t2 will be a better anchor to the van atleast
based on kerb or gross weight you would imagine.

related issue is tug really pulling full weight of van as it is carrying the nose weight.
might not sound much but could be as much as 75-100-140 kg. be interesting
applying that to some of the near the line outfits...

oh and some 4x4s that could virtually carry the caravan or a great chunk if there
was a way to transfer the weight. might help group b only licences. wonder how
those fifth wheel vans go on as they have some serious noseweights maybe upto
a tonne.

As we understand it the laws for 5vers (fifth wheel) are the same. But we see many that don't seem to take the law into account and get away with it. Same as we do with trailer caravans. With a fifth wheel you can tow so long as you have the correct cat on your licence (i.e. can pull a trailer) and if you can drive up to 7.5 tons then your train weight can be as high as 12 ton with a max length of 60 ft (in n round figures)

Fact is mostly Plod doesn’t know the law on trailers (they may think they do though). One plod tried to take me off the road once because I had a trailer with electric brakes and because it had no sliding hitch, he tried to do me for having an overweight unbaked trailer
He was going to GV9 it and called for inspection.
We stated that the trailer had a legal braking system and that it was fully working.
Furthermore if they GV9'd me incorrectly and irresponsibly they would be liable for losses, costs etc. So they elected (wisely) not to and gave me a ticket instead
It never went to court ..... We never even produced an engineer’s inspection we just sent in copies of the relevant law concerning trailer brakes

VOSA is a little more dangerous but not much. If you have a 4x4 and it doesn’t have a designed restricted towing weight you can pretty well do what you like because there is a loophole somewhere you just have to find it and crawl through it.

Twice noe I have managed to be allowed to continue when threatened with a GV9 because I have just politely but firmly pointed out the error of the plods ways and suggested that they do not need to be wrong because if they are then.................

Being sensible and looking like you know what you are doing goes a long way to solving side of the road stops

As for transferring the nose weight of the caravan as vehicle payload. This doesn't work..........It has been tried and it was decided that the regs where designed to take this into account. Indeed you will find that newer vehicles often quote allowed hitch weight as well as gross trailer weight. Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that the regs are mostly designed around max laden weight of the trailer and not, as many think, the curb weight.

80% is a good rule but can be chucked outa the window if you know what you are about. Where 4x4's are concerned for the average driver we are more cautious about the wheelbase of the tug as most can pull weight quite safely. However when you are at the wheel of a shortie and the trailer decides to wag its tail it can be very hard work to get it back in a hurry if at all. Light modern caravans with central axles and hardly any nose weight are more prone to doing there own thing and many folk don't bother to load properly or do things like check hitch height when laden, check tire pressures and condition etc.
As for brakes A lot of Tin Tent Pullers are completely oblivious to their trailer brakes. We see everything from non existant (literally! the owner had removed all working parts in the drums because they where " making a 'orible noise" ) to incorectly adjusted to the point where they would lock at any speed below 40mph
More caravan accidents are caused by these points than anything else. So much so that there is talk of an MOT for Caravans.
While this would be a pain for the more sensible of us it is a good thing for many

One final word that many overlook is EXAMINE your insurance pol. Make sure you have adequate cover. You would be supprised at the number of folk that think they have but havn't

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

think vatco you'll find limit on a 7.5 tonne licence presume you mean c1 is 8250 with
a +e entitlement as i recall a c1 can tow upto 750 kg so 8250 and a c1+e whilst still
8250 means truck can be less and more trailer.

its possible to take a further test that takes gtw to 12000kg. aimed at 7.5t trucks
pulling a matching trailer. not many of these outfits on road. tbh most ive seen
are from mainland europe.

suspect there are a lot of say 7.5t tippers tugging mini diggers incorrectly without
the enhanced c1+e ticket.

oh and for good measure a c1's 'e' differs in size from a d1(minibus)'s 'e' just like
it does for c(big truck/lgv/former class2 hgv) and d(bus).

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by Thomas-the-Terrano2

its possible to take a further test that takes gtw to 12000kg. aimed at 7.5t trucks
pulling a matching trailer. not many of these outfits on road. tbh most ive seen
are from mainland europe.

Fair few do the hazardous packaged goods transport between here and Rotterdam

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by vatco

looking like you know what you are doing goes a long way to solving side of the road stops

We havent met have we

Many have tried, very few succeeded

Only joking, on a more serious note theres a lot of cops who wont admit they dont know. I dont follow that. My phone is laden with decent contacts and when we cant sort it, its off the the jolly old DfT.

I wish more would do that instead of embarrassing themselves.

[(RIP) PLANK]

I know it sounds silly, but it pays to have all the little things in order, good tread on your tyres, all lights working, tax up to date, proper number plate on the trailer etc etc. as its these things that get you stopped in the first place!

and that's when the trouble starts!

[Liam]

Originally Posted by PLANK

I know it sounds silly, but it pays to have all the little things in order, good tread on your tyres, all lights working, tax up to date, proper number plate on the trailer etc etc. as its these things that get you stopped in the first place!

and that's when the trouble starts!

Well said but reading these posts one could be forgiven for thinking the UK IS a police state. Luckily,over her with a total police force of less than 15,000 for a population of 4 million, we don't have the manpower to deal with petty traffic offences on a large scale. Remember ,it's a TOTAL police force of less than 15,000 divided by three working shifts equals less than 5,000 minus HQ staff and excluding holidays,sick leave etc. Luck if we have 3,500 on duty at any one time. Dublin alone has a population of 1.5 million.

[Muckypup]

My understanding is this...

If you passed your test after Jan 97 you are limited to a maximum trailer weight of 750kgs braked or not. If you want to tow more than that you need B+E.
With B+E licence you can be a maximum train weight of 7 tonnes. IE 3500kgs Tow vehicle, 3500kgs trailer providing the towing vehicle is rated to tow such a weight. Eg a Defender Hi-cap with Ifor Williams trailer can easilly exceed 6 tonnes and still be perfectly legal.
I passed my B+E back in September and the instructor explained the rules very well for me. The full day course including test cost me a bit over £400.00. You need to do some lessons as you'll never pass just going straight for the test, its basically the same as a hgv test and they require you to drive differently to what they teach you for your normal driving test.

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by Liam

reading these posts one could be forgiven for thinking the UK IS a police state.

Dont worry it isnt. The government has given away the powers to everyone else

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

Originally Posted by Muckypup

My understanding is this...

If you passed your test after Jan 97 you are limited to a maximum trailer weight of 750kgs braked or not. If you want to tow more than that you need B+E.
With B+E licence you can be a maximum train weight of 7 tonnes. IE 3500kgs Tow vehicle, 3500kgs trailer providing the towing vehicle is rated to tow such a weight. Eg a Defender Hi-cap with Ifor Williams trailer can easilly exceed 6 tonnes and still be perfectly legal.
I passed my B+E back in September and the instructor explained the rules very well for me. The full day course including test cost me a bit over £400.00. You need to do some lessons as you'll never pass just going straight for the test, its basically the same as a hgv test and they require you to drive differently to what they teach you for your normal driving test.

close and spot on about test procedures but a staight cat B can tow 750 on top of its
own upto 3500 so 4250 OR a combination where the MAM of the trailer doesnt exceed
the MAM of the tug and combined is less than or equal to 3500.
so a 2 tonne car can tow a 1.5 tonne trailer, but something lumpier like a t2 at say
2.8 MAM or GVW will be limited to 700kg. this is on post 97 licences of course, rest of
us have grandfather rights including the +E trailer and most C1 which is 3500-7500kg
vehicles, and upto 16 seat minibuses, though 9 to 16 seats is limited to non hire and
reward. (D1).

[The Patrolman]

The 80% - 85% limit is only a recomendation.
I was told by a trailer manufacturer whom I had build a trailer mounted road side LED display that ran from a hydrogen fuel cell. The Law (which is an ass at best) states that you can tow upto 85% of the tow vehicles weight..............Unless you are experienced at towing you can then tow a trailer that is equal to the weight of the tow vehicle!!! WTF.. so if pulled over and asked if you are experienced just say yes!!

[(RIP) PLANK]

Originally Posted by The Patrolman

The 80% - 85% limit is only a recomendation.
I was told by a trailer manufacturer whom I had build a trailer mounted road side LED display that ran from a hydrogen fuel cell. The Law (which is an ass at best) states that you can tow upto 85% of the tow vehicles weight..............Unless you are experienced at towing you can then tow a trailer that is equal to the weight of the tow vehicle!!! WTF.. so if pulled over and asked if you are experienced just say yes!!

I'm not sure that is the law, as it wouls til make towing most trailer illegal with most vehicles, forget carvans for a minute as they are, as trailers go, disproportionately large and light.

Imagine a large horse box with two large horses?

or a livestock trailer, which i tow regularely with 3 or 4 cows?

triple decks of sheep?

mini digger, or road roller? you see large public bodies do this every day!

another car on a trailer?

you see there are strict laws for towing with commercials, all down to the gross weights and train weights as shown on the plates on the vehicle

but many large live stck trailers are the best part of 1500k empty and have a gross weight of 3500k so they would be illegal to tow with virtualy anything and so no one would make them anymore.

a T2 has a towing capacity of 2850K? so why if it legaly could tow about 1000k less?

my undertanding is that 85% is meraly a giudeline and there is no law, full stop! however ! of course if it appeared to be an issue and looked unsafe then i am sure it would break some law or other.

if there was a law surely it wouldn't be so criptic and would be clearly stated some where for us to read, for example the highway code?

the 85% is a rule,as far as i can tel,l thought up by caravan organisations, for the guidance of members, and protects people against stupid purhase descisions, though i maintain that proper loading and leveling is more important and much neglected. If they had their way and it became law, the rural community would be sorley out of pocket, again!

here are the specs for 2 popular current ifor williams horse trailers:

Model Tyres Gross Weight Unladen Weight Internal Length Internal Width Overall Length Overall Width
HB610 175R16C 3500kg 1450kg 4.25m 2.07m 5.74m 2.30m
HB510XL 175R16C 3500kg 1290kg 4.25m 1.74m 5.76m 2.30m

even if the 100% rule were law, you might as well take them both to the scrap yard today! bear in mind most older trailers are even heavier!

[Deleted account DD]

Originally Posted by The Patrolman

The 80% - 85% limit is only a recomendation.
I was told by a trailer manufacturer whom I had build a trailer mounted road side LED display that ran from a hydrogen fuel cell. The Law (which is an ass at best) states that you can tow upto 85% of the tow vehicles weight..............Unless you are experienced at towing you can then tow a trailer that is equal to the weight of the tow vehicle!!! WTF.. so if pulled over and asked if you are experienced just say yes!!

Sorry you have been completely misinformed. As posted earlier, you can tow any ratio you want so long as you dont exceed the lower or any combo of 3:

1. your vehicle tow rating
2. your trailer capacity
3. your combined weight ie gross train or combined weight whatever terminology is trendy as per the plate if applicable)

The 85% as stated by plank is a guide. "they" whoever they may have been reckoned its at the 85% ratio point is when you may have disproportionate problems getting nose weights sorted and its where a cross wind or speed may make the tail wag the dog

[Muckypup]

I was on the M62 at Christmas and saw a Rover 216 towing a tandem axle trailer with another Rover 216 on its back, slightly over-loaded methinks...
Oh and there was a Volvo with flashing lights escorting it off the motorway

[zippy656]

Blue lights i trust